0:00
Alina Dallal
Hi, everyone, and welcome to our panel. Using data to drive authentic human narratives in marketing. Data driven marketing is crucial to articulating our company's value, showcasing our product impact, and assessing the effectiveness of marketing campaigns. But translating numbers into engaging stories that deeply resonate with audiences can be a little challenging sometimes, which is why we're here today. So the main question we want to answer today is how can we bring those figures down to earth to make data evoke emotion and maintain an authentic human voice that keeps our storytelling genuine? I'm your host today. I'm Alina Delal, the content marketing manager here at Oktopost, and I'm joined by the incredibly talented Solvay. We're going to dive deep into her processes and experiences as a content creator and how she turns data into compelling human narratives throughout the webinar. Feel free to drop your questions in the chat or in the Q and A section. Sorry. And we'll get to them at the end. And don't worry, all of you will receive a recording after the webinar is finished. But let's start by introducing you. Solvay, can you tell us a little bit about yourself, your role and your background and how you became passionate about bringing human, the human element into marketing?
1:10
Solveig Rundquist
Absolutely. I'm from the US Since I see people from all over the world, I want to say hi and give some context. I was born and raised in Utah, but I've been living in Stockholm and Sweden for the last decade. And I would say that I've always been a storyteller. And what I mean by that is, you know, I loved English class. I was an avid reader from a young age. I was reading the classics like Les miserables at age 12. And I put myself through college because maybe not everyone knows this, but or probably do in the US University is very, very expensive in Sweden. It's free, for instance. But I don't have student debt because I put myself through college basically by writing essays that won me scholarships. So storytelling is just always what I've done. Writing is always what I've done. And then I studied journalism and that's how I started my career. So I've always been someone who loves asking the why, weaving words in a way that makes an impact on someone. And then quickly from journalism, I transitioned into content marketing, native advertising, when that was turning into a big thing, like 10 years ago now. And that just led to more and more content marketing, social media marketing, and brand marketing. And I love it because I think that marketing is storytelling, or it should be. I mean, Marketing is communication that creates a feeling and hopefully influences human behavior. So it's essential to have that human touch. And I mean, storytelling is also an essential part of, a fundamental part of what makes us human. Use of narratives is one of the things that makes our species very unique and has helped us to evolve to where we are today. So. So it's always been a passion of mine and I've gotten to use it in many different ways and I'm excited for this.
2:49
Alina Dallal
Well, considering that intro, I'm so excited to jump in. You have a big experience in storytelling, clearly. And as we're going into the first question, I'm sure a lot of us wonder, once we have the data, how can we get that story out of it? So how sift through data to uncover those storytelling gems that bring empathy and relatability to your content.
3:15
Solveig Rundquist
Right. Great question. I have a maybe longer complicated answer, but I think if we start with a very basic definition of data from the Oxford Dictionary, it's facts and statistics that are collected together for reference or analysis. If from there we go to okay, data driven storytelling, put simply, is telling stories and using data points through to back it up. So sometimes you need to first find that story, or sometimes, you know, the story you want to tell, maybe you need to find those points. And the key to doing that in a human way is really empathy and relatability. Like I think you said that, you know, if you find data taken out of context can feel very cold and calculated, very non human. If you think about a big Excel sheet full of numbers and nothing else on a screen, it doesn't look very human. But when you use them to support a narrative, it totally changes the vibe. And so some of the things you can do to look for that is start looking for trends. And there are two parts of that, two easy types of trends to look for. You know, things that are surprising or relatable and then look for the why, and then look for real people who can give voices to those. So for instance, you know, there's. There's a proverb that I love, that I think I said last time I talked with Oktopost as well on a podcast, is that there's a proverb, tell me a fact and I'll learn. Tell me a truth and I'll believe, but tell me a story and it will live in my heart forever. And the real life proof of this to me is really that people, you can see every day in life that people really believe in the power of numbers, but they have a hard time remembering the Actual number. Like how many times have you heard or said in a conversation, oh, I heard some crazy statistic. It was something like x percent. Think of this. But you don't actually remember the number. You just make something up on the spot. I mean, that's remembering the feeling. So numbers alone aren't enough. So look for the why. Look for trends and almost counterintuitive data points. If I think I'm alone in something, I'm kind of a weirdo. And then I hear a stat about how 8 in 10 people actually do this weird thing that I do, I'll be surprised and I won't relate to that. So looking for relatability, looking for something unexpected and remembering that. Data driven storytelling doesn't replace emotion or narratives with numbers. It uses stats and data to improve the overall effectiveness of. Of the message.
5:33
Alina Dallal
Definitely. I think sometimes when we say data driven, there's this misconception that it's just put the data. But as you said, you'll remember the story, you'll remember the facts. If you pull out those patterns, you pull out those trends and you make it relatable and then people will remember it. I love the quote that you said. It's one of my favorite quotes of yours.
5:51
Solveig Rundquist
Me too. Glad you're also a friend.
5:54
Alina Dallal
So going off what we said, sometimes what resonates with one person might fall flat with different person. So when it comes to using data, how do you use it to ensure that your stories connect with different audience segments in different industries?
6:07
Solveig Rundquist
Right. I mean, I think that in storytelling, it really is the nuanced understanding of your audience, which then, you know, is powered by data, hopefully, which can help turn a good story into a great one. So Personas, of course. And by focusing on the Personas and weaving data into narratives that resonate on a personal level, that that's how we ensure that the stories aren't just heard, but are felt and remembered. Getting back to that proverb. So you should craft the segments of data, of course, and hopefully that already is a part of what you do. I think that knowing your audience is part of a bedrock of good storytelling. I mean, we use data analytics to uncover trends, behaviors and preferences within each audience segment, ensuring the stories are grounded in reality and relevance. And there's tons of examples of this. I mean, data helps us inform, like decide what narrative elements will be most engaging for each Persona, from the themes we explore to the language we use. I mean, hopefully your audience understanding is a type of data that's informed your choice of brand voice, for instance, Your tone of voice. So it's not about using data just to inform and inspire our storytelling, but also make sure that every element of the story is tailored to connect with the audience on a deeper level. So that's really a big thing. Of course, it's just audience understanding. Moreover, I'd say data is also our feedback loop. Of course, you have to accept trial and error, and you're not going to succeed instantly with everything you do. But make sure to learn from it. This is a huge one where I think that a lot of companies push out content, whether it's data or storytelling or hopefully both, but forget to learn much from it and have a feedback loop. After the story is out in the world, turn back to data to measure the impact of the story, understand the audience reactions, and refine the approach. And this cycle of storytelling, informed and validated by data, ensures that our narratives are constantly evolving and becoming more potent and becoming more precise and making sure that we resonate. So I guess the data is a compass that can guide our storytelling journey.
8:02
Alina Dallal
I'd say yeah, it's full circle from the beginning, using the data to make it relatable, then afterwards, using the data to understand how that landed with audiences. And going off what you said, their personalization is also very important when you look at what's going on, okay, this works for that segment. This works for a different one. And sometimes if it doesn't work, it doesn't mean it's not going to work again in the future. And sometimes if it that it could, you don't know the pattern. It could be one off. It could land again, amazingly, in the future. So it's constantly using that data to refine your strategies and what you're putting out there, for sure.
8:39
Solveig Rundquist
And I mean, we all like different types of books and movies, so it's really the same thing. Like, just because your story doesn't work well for one audience doesn't mean it's a bad story. But you do have to know what resonates and trial and error, definitely.
8:52
Alina Dallal
So then talking about human narratives, as we're saying this whole time, that empathy is such a crucial part of it. So I'm wondering if you could share an example of how using data provided you with those deep insights that improved your storytelling, make you more empathetic and genuine. So basically just an example of what we've been talking about.
9:10
Solveig Rundquist
Yeah, I mean, I could talk about this all day. I mean, two famous ones. Before I get to my examples I want to throw in is like, for instance, I just recently read an article in the Times Times magazine about Taylor Swift and her effect on the economy. Right. And like, how everyone is talking about how like Taylor Swift and Beyonce have had this effect that have like listed the. Lifted the whole American economy. And how do they see that? It's data, but it's also because she's a great storyteller and they can tell a story around that. So these things that sort of surprise you. So a fun example from Mentimeter where I work is that we found through a survey a couple of years ago that post pandemic people were actually more afraid of public speaking than they were of death. Like, if they had to rank their fears, public speaking was number one and death was number two. And that is such a powerful data point because that's so relatable. And so what Mentimeter did was create a campaign with a report on this and a bunch of videos and billboards letting people know. Letting people know these facts, these stats and that they weren't allowed alone in this, and then giving them tips on how to succeed and how to mitigate the scariest parts of presenting. So, like I said, frequently, you know, it's finding the data and finding the trends in that data. Like this trend of being so terrified of meetings. Yeah. And then frequently, though. Sorry, go on.
10:32
Alina Dallal
No, no, keep going. I'm loving this example. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you.
10:36
Solveig Rundquist
Oh, it's. Yeah, I talk a lot. Yeah. So that's one example that I love, but like a very different example because that's an example of finding a trend and like I say, like the power in the trend. But sometimes to make a trend relatable, you really have to hone in on one example and then still tell a story about it. So another example I have would be when I worked at Rebtel, which is a company which provides international calling for migrants all around the world. And we had a ton of data about, you know, who was calling where for how long. I mean, there's obviously a lot of different reasons why someone migrates from one place to another. And we saw, for instance, that like Nigerians in the US moved there largely for work, and they've chosen to move there for their careers. And they send a lot of money back to family. The separation is by choice for economic reasons. Frequently, whereas Cuban migrants in the US which was another huge group for us and huge audience for reptile, are largely more poor. They're more than likely than more likely than the general population or other immigrant populations to be below the poverty Line. And historically, it's been very hard for them to see their families because the travel restrictions on both sides, of course, mean that some kids grow up in one country or the other without seeing their parents, siblings, aunts, friends who have lives very close to each other. Geographically, they are very close and yet so far and unable to reach each other. So we could have used that data to make a big report or a bunch of infographics. You know, Nigerians in the US are doing X, Cubans in the US are doing. Yeah, but that's not as relatable or that doesn't have that emotional element. So what we did instead was we looked at calling data. We got in contact with some of the users who were calling home to Cuba the most, and we asked them their stories. And then we actually went to Cuba to meet the people they were calling, sent a team to interview them and made a series of videos and partnered with actually a popular rap duo there and created a song, it's called so Close so Far. And helped create a whole music video featuring these people.
12:44
Alina Dallal
Okay, guys, you heard it here. So Close so far. They can go and listen to it afterwards. But that is incredible. It's a good having those stories on video and seeing those faces and you're taking those stats and you're making it so impactful that people really understand these stories of these families, which is incredible. Sorry.
13:03
Solveig Rundquist
No, I mean, I think that like you say, I mean, showing the faces, that's really what makes a difference. Because when you want to make it relatable, I mean, data can help you find the story, but you need to tell the story with emotion. And in the end, the most powerful stories are shown and not told.
13:18
Alina Dallal
Yeah. Wow. I've kind of got chills. That's amazing. And also with the first example you gave, I also wanted to add that seeing a stat like public speaking is the greater fear than death will get someone's attention straight away, for sure. Datas new capture your audience's attention. They want to know more. I just wanted to spotlight that as well. About how it's such a good way narratives and it's.
13:48
Solveig Rundquist
Yeah.
13:48
Alina Dallal
Out thinking and using that to call everybody out to bring awareness to your brand, I think is also a really important and tactical way of doing it.
13:58
Solveig Rundquist
Thanks. Yeah, they also. I was. I wasn't actually involved in that campaign, but I'm still proud of it because it was meant to meter. That was before I started. But they even like, you know, they put these billboards about this terror outside of offices like in Seattle. Where the people in the survey were. So they're like seeing some really big corporations with these billboards outside about how terrifying meetings were. And I think it was a really great emotional storytelling tactic based on data.
14:24
Alina Dallal
Yeah, smart. So with using all different types of data, I'm interested to know if, if this is something you need to overcome. Is there any resistance within your marketing teams or with at Mentor Meter and your organization about introducing a more human, story driven approach, especially when a data centric style is preferred? Like, was this a situation before the two examples you gave me? Has this been something you had to overcome in the past?
14:50
Solveig Rundquist
I have to say that I think I'm lucky in the sense that I haven't had too much resistance, at least within the marketing team. But it depends on the type of problem and the context of the resistance. And I think that it's harder when you go outside of marketing. Generally marketing understands the value of storytelling, but for instance, I generally have no hard time finding people who want to tell their stories. But I do see a lot of people trying to present data without any human element or narrative included. So then the tactic I use is, you know, really act like a child and just push and add the why, why, why, but why? You know, we have all this data, but why? Or we should do this as product marketing even I'm like, but why? So just being that broken record and asking the why frequently leads you back to that. Because I find that frequently, especially maybe on the product side or the developer side, colleagues tend to be very focused on the what, which is hugely important, of course, but it's not powerful enough usually for a story. So it's about asking why? And then when it comes to maybe a separate problem of like, creation of narratives and encouraging people to work that way to tell their stories that maybe, for instance, like the sales team, I don't know, how do we get sales to think more in terms of stories, even in their selling? Then you can use data in your favor, right? Just to like show for instance, how those who use social selling outsell their peers. You know how I think it's like social selling. People who use social selling are 51% more likely than their peers to like reach their quotas. Now this becomes you using data, right? To build an emotional connection for them where they're like, oh, wow, I want to be that guy. So when you present that type of data, then frequently they're already on board. So, so gather the data that supports your objective. Tell them again the real life stories of those who have succeeded there's plenty of them out there and that usually does the trick.
16:40
Alina Dallal
Yes, that's a good way. If anybody here is listening and a data centric style is preferred in your organization, painting those stories and bringing them the answers and showing them the numbers is the way that you can encourage moving towards more the story driven approach. And like the statistics you say, they stick with me. There was one. I'm sure everyone knows this, but 75 of B2B buyers are, are sitting on social media and I think that makes really realize like, wow, there's a value of it. So I think definitely bringing them the numbers and showing them the evidence would be a really good way to help you encourage it for sure.
17:15
Solveig Rundquist
I mean, if data is their preferred way of working, show them the data about how important storytelling is, the impact it has. I mean, use their own medicine.
17:25
Alina Dallal
So you mentioned sales teams and bringing this. We spoke about bringing this data to other people in the organization and having our team members embrace their human voices and storytelling is also so crucial. So if we want to get them involved, but sometimes they might feel uncomfortable. What strategies and initiatives have you used to help your team find their authentic voices and overcome any of this hesitation that they might have about personal storytelling and content creation?
17:52
Solveig Rundquist
This is a great question, and I don't think there's one size fits all. I mean, there are many tactics I've seen used and one isn't right or wrong. But frequently I've heard people suggest starting with a ghostwriter, and I'm actually not a fan of that technique. And I'll tell you why. I think that as we've discussed, storytelling and marketing is about building a connection. Hopefully it's not just a megaphone. It should be a dialogue. Eventually it should go both ways. The purpose is to build a relationship that will bring that person back to you for more interaction and hopefully eventually a conversion of some type. So if the goal is connection and interaction, if you're using a ghostwriter to tell your stories, then you're not actually usually connecting with those hearing your stories. I've seen cases where someone has a ghostwriter to write for them on LinkedIn, but then they get tons of engagement and comments, but then they don't actually respond to any of them. Or maybe let's say they use the ghostwriter to respond to them, but then they run into one of these people like you at a mingle event or a conference in person and they don't even know what conversations they've had with this person. So I do think that you have to own your stories because that will help you connect and that is the part that's essential. So typically what I do instead is because I know this is scary, I know this is hard, is I usually try to have more of a coaching approach and help them to identify what their goals are of social media, for instance, or storytelling, what are the audiences they want to reach and then find their key pillars. And I usually say have three or four pillars. Three is a great place to start. And maybe have two that are areas of expertise for you, but then have one that's more about your passion. Because to really feel human and craft these authentic narratives, it shouldn't all just be about your professional life. You have to have this, this personal flare. And that part is really scary. I know. I mean, it scares me sometimes too. I think some of my highest performing posts that I've told on LinkedIn, the stories I've told, I almost haven't posted them because I'm like, oh, this is really personal, this is scary. And then those are the ones that turns out really, really resonate. So of course that's scary. So I think just like to be there for people and even like, do some hand holding along the way. So, like, I, I help them craft their little strategy, their mini strategy with these pillars that they have and then like run constant checkups. Oh, you know, what are you posting this week? Can I help? Do you want, you know, another pair of eyes on this before you press post and just hand holding in the beginning until they start to build some confidence on their own? Yeah, definitely.
20:24
Alina Dallal
I think it's really interesting and really important how you break it down because I think overall being like, okay, we want to do personal storytelling, share stuff online, humanize yourself. The concept sounds terrifying, but when you break it down to, okay, this is how you do it, you don't have to talk about everything in the world. Pick three subjects. What do you love most about each of these subjects? Where do you think that you can place your value in and go step by step and give them the support at the end of the day, anybody, we're human. We're going to feel comfortable if we have that support and that stepping stone and that guidance. So I really think that is a really smart way of doing it. And it's, it will encourage a better outcome because they have that support the whole way through. So it's also, I feel like they'll stay engaged, they won't drop off.
21:09
Solveig Rundquist
Yeah, hopefully. I mean, you'll always have some drop off. I mean, because you don't know who's going to be that you're, you know, your most engaged storytellers. But for sure, coaching and handling in the beginning and I mean, that's how you, you build it. Because otherwise, you know, you, you have to have the authenticity, like you say, to find their authentic voices. Your authentic voice. I'm sorry, but I'll die on this hill. Your authentic voice cannot come from a ghostwriter because then it's not authentic.
21:34
Alina Dallal
Exactly. So going back a bit to the data driven side of it, numbers can be intimidating. I'm going to put it out there. It can be overwhelming. You're going to look at maybe where you find is an Excel spreadsheet. You see all these numbers, you see these stats floating online that some people honestly might just not know where to start. So when you're doing your marketing work and you're going for all your amazing storytelling, how do you break those numbers down so it's approachable and delivers value for your audience?
22:04
Solveig Rundquist
Yeah, this resonates with me so much because I'm one of those people like, I don't really like numbers, to be honest. Yeah, numbers can be intimidating. And I'm not the type of person who doesn't want to have to deal with the numbers. Like, I just want to know what they mean. Like, I'm all about data driven insights, right. But not so much about the data itself. I don't want to sit with like a spreadsheet. So the easy but lazy answers that I would give off the top of my head are like, you know, ask your data team if you have one, ask a data Analyst or Ask ChatGPT. I'm lucky at Mentimeter because we actually have a sales and marketing analytics team and that's a huge luxury. I know not everyone has that, but I can actually ask them to find and present the data I need. Maybe you have a friend or colleague who is nerdy about this stuff otherwise and feels strong and would like to help you out otherwise. But if not, I'd say that ChatGPT really is your best friend in this. For instance, like at mentimeter, we recently did one of these whole year in review campaigns and the data team gave me a bunch of usage stats and I had no idea what to do with them. I looked at them and I was just like, okay, but what's the story? What's the trends? I have no idea. How does this compare to last year's? Where do I find the trends in the story? And that's something that AI is really great. At is actually just looking at data, pulling out insights and just translating the data into something more human and relatable. So for instance, in, in the Mentimeter platform we have like reaction buttons and there's one that's like this weird little cat shaped emoji and I had like a number like, oh, this many cat reactions were given in our presentations last year. But ChatGPT was like, oh, this is equivalent to the cat population of Latvia, which is really random but fun. And like somehow that just leaves me with a feeling, especially as a cat person. I'm like, oh, whoa, I didn't know that was the cat population of Latvia. And even though that's just this random little tidbit, it just makes it more relatable and more, more interesting. So yeah, just ask for help, whether that's a person or AI.
24:06
Alina Dallal
Yeah, it's also, that is a good tip because I don't know the cat population of Latvia. Like there's some things that you can compare things to that you're never going to know yourself. You might not be able to find yourself. So ChatGPT can help you make these stories around the piece of data that you have and as you've segued into ChatGPT. So I'm interested to know in general, I know with pulling statistics and comparisons, but what do you think of the use of ChatGPT in content creation in general as well?
24:32
Solveig Rundquist
Right. Yeah, I have mixed feelings for sure. I've actually been running a test myself on my LinkedIn profile where I think for the past two months I've been using AI to create posts, but not exclusively. I've been mixing them in with posts that I do myself and I've been really interested to see what the effects will be. I don't really have a conclusion yet, except I can say that none of my most popular viral posts have been AI. They've all been me. But the AI ones have also done well. So in terms of just being consistent and producing at scale, I think it's really useful. I think as a writer it needs work. But they also say that it's. It's the matter of learning to prompt better. What you put in affects what you'll get out, obviously. So writing quality, I still don't think we're really there. I really hope that we don't rely too much on AI for content production, but I think that AI is wonderful for, like I said, scalability and working smart. So we will of course see a backlash as people rely on it too much. Since right now it doesn't really have the ability to add that human nuance that we do. So for sure keep a human in the loop, but use AI to scale, use it to analyze data, use it to find trends, use it to draft a couple of posts, but then make sure to always connect it back to the human narrative and make sure that the story is still about people.
25:59
Alina Dallal
Exactly. I think it's such a great springboard and as you said, to help you scale up your content and then when we're talking about being human, we're the humans. So after all we can go back in and add that human element, make sure it sounds like our brand or like us as a person from whichever profile we're posting.
26:16
Solveig Rundquist
Yeah, that's actually a great point about making it sound on brand though is like I'd say maybe surprisingly that's one where AI really can help is that I found. You know, there are so many platforms chatgpt, but Jasper AI is another one where you can input your tone of voice guidelines and on certain levels of their software pricing plan, you can actually like have it do a review for the tone of voice. And from a scalability work smart perspective, that's fantastic. I mean, if I can like have another team write something and already have it go through that tone of voice check before I see it, it just makes my life so much easier.
26:47
Alina Dallal
It's like you're reading my mind. I was literally about to segue to asking because you spoke about prompting. So what kind of things do you include in the prompt? I was going to ask if there was like brand tones, but you've answered that. But is that what kind of steps do you include in the prompt so you get the post that you want? Because I know sometimes it's a bit tricky for marketers to really nail and what they put into Chat GBT to
27:06
Solveig Rundquist
get the results right. I mean, I don't want to pretend I'm an expert on this because I'm definitely still just a student and I'm learning. But I do use Chat GPT. But I've also been testing Jasper AI a lot. And what I like about Jasper AI is that there's a Now this sounds like it's sponsored and it's really not. But you, you have a whole knowledge base in there where you can upload something like 150 documents in this knowledge base, you know, your personal knowledge base or the company knowledge base. So for instance, like Mentimeter released the State of Meetings report last year and I can upload that file and in my Prompting, I can tell it to like pull information from that document or this document. And so not just the world Wide web, you can do that of course as well. But like, frequently if you're trying to build your company's reputation as a thought leader or so on, and you have these internal documents, then you can use those in that. So you can say you using this, produce a post on this topic, but also tie it back to this, also pull out some other stats. But it's, you know, it's just trial and error. You know, of course they're iterative tools, so always like going back. And I think the more you iterate, the more you learn. I mean, frequently my prompts have started very bad and I've known that because of the input or what I the output was very bad. And then I say no, but I actually meant more like this. Can you make it more like this? It's like, okay, here's a new version. And eventually when I get what I want, then I'm like, okay, so that was supposed to be my original prompt, but I'm not an expert. I mean, it's learning, it's trial and error.
28:39
Alina Dallal
I think AI for a while will be trial and error. It's constantly changing, it's constantly evolving. But it's definitely an amazing tool at our disposal as marketers to help us scale up, as you said before, create lots of content. So the next question I do want to ask, we kind of touched on it a bit at the beginning. Well, breaking it up because it's a bit of a big one. But how do you utilize data metrics to see if adding human elements to your content helps connect you with your audience better?
29:05
Solveig Rundquist
Right? I mean, it depends on the channel as well, the context. I mean, for things like, you know, social media, I would obviously say mentions and sentiment analysis and tagging. I mean, how many people are talking about your content? So it's easier on social media, of course, to see what's doing well and see, okay, are those the more personal posts? And of course with social media management tools, you can clearly see what is performing and we can know, for instance, oh well, like people focused posts do better on both LinkedIn and Instagram than just like data or product posts. There are also a lot of tools you can use to tag outgoing messages to even make that a more smooth process to report on. Like, okay, we see that the posts about this do better. The posts that are written by humans versus AI maybe do better. But for other types of content like blogs or things not directly on Social, I'd say of course it's a little bit more complicated to track. There are a lot of factors involved, but generally you can still see trends over time. So I mean maybe the time on page, returning visitors, I mean just look for all of these things that see like the engagement with it really and see, okay, are the more human elements leading long term to better engagement or not?
30:20
Alina Dallal
Yeah, I think it's such a crucial part of content creation. Just knowing what's landing well and resonating with the audience will inform your strategy. It's a full circle form of strategy going forward. So you can constantly make sure that you're resonating with the people that you want to resonate with. So it's a really important step. I know you kind of touched on it, but what are the key signs you look for and do you adjust it based on what you learn?
30:44
Solveig Rundquist
Yeah, I mean you for sure have to adjust. I mean, so the key signs, like I said, of course are like the reach, the engagement, the dimensions that you see, the sentiment analysis on, all of that and to have those feedback loops, I mean both from the data, from your data and your analytics and also from word of mouth, from what you're hearing from colleagues or friends, family, customers. Hopefully you're getting feedback from your customers as well. And of course you have to adjust. That gets back to the feedback loop and adjust everything as you go. And there are a lot of tools that can make that easier as well. I mean things like Dream Data or any other of those tools that really can dive into like what content is affecting deals as well and long term. But I'd say the most important thing is just to have a feedback loop. I mean to be looking for signs like there are a bunch of different signs you could look for. But the important thing is that you are looking for signs and that you are actually tracking that and monitoring that so that you can learn from it. If you're not monitoring it, if you're not tracking that in some way, then you're not going to learn.
31:49
Alina Dallal
Yeah, exactly. And I think it's important even with the stuff that you know historically performs really well, still check see it and there's no set in stone, one size fits all key signs to look for for everyone. It's unique to your and each time, each post you're going to learn which signs work the best for you, which metrics to track work the best for you. So that has brought us to the end of our questions. But I'm wondering if you have any closing insights that you'd like to add before we move over to the Q and A section. And guys, now's the chance to pop your questions in and we'll answer them.
32:23
Solveig Rundquist
Yeah, I don't know if I have anything else to add. I guess I would maybe just summarize as, you know, it's. It's not data or storytelling. It's data for storytelling. So you don't have to choose. It's when you kind of bring them both together that it makes a really powerful story, is the partnership.
32:44
Alina Dallal
That's where you're going to get the results in. And so while we wait for questions to come through, I'm going to ask you one, if that's all right. I was wondering if there's anything at the beginning, when you first started doing data driven marketing and pulling out the data, was there anything at the time you found challenging that you look back now and you think, oh, maybe it wasn't as difficult as it was, or there was a bit of a learning curve.
33:08
Solveig Rundquist
I mean, handling data in general has been a learning curve for me because like I said, I'm not a huge fan of like looking at a big spreadsheet, But I'd say just being. Being willing to start that journey earlier on and to keep in mind as well that there are multiple factors, of course, that make a great story and that usually one isn't enough. So for instance, sometimes you might find, like this one, I don't know, this one customer that has something really, really interesting to say. But if it doesn't have relatability or it doesn't have enough of a surprise factor, I don't know, like what makes something interesting. And usually there's. There's something a little bit of a surprise and a little bit of relatability. Like, those are two factors that can really help make any story. And you know, sometimes if there's not enough to work with in the story, sometimes I've maybe felt emotionally invested in telling a story, but that, like, it didn't have enough of the elements to get the impact. I thought. So I would say actually, like, study storytelling. I mean, go back. This stuff goes back to Aristotle. Like, get nerdy in it. Study the elements of storytelling and narrative, even, like from the Greeks, we've been doing this for centuries. And start playing with those earlier on in your marketing is what I would tell myself.
34:28
Alina Dallal
That's good advice. We had a question pop into the Q and A chat. What data categories and preferred sources do you look to for inspiration?
34:38
Solveig Rundquist
Well, I want more than what I
34:42
Alina Dallal
have
34:44
Solveig Rundquist
so data categories and sources. It depends on of course, what channels you're looking at. So for social media, of course, classic ones are like engagement and reach mentions for me right now is a huge one. I want people to talk about our brand and so any content that is making that happen is fantastic. But preferred sources, I want really robust sources because I think that a lot of us in marketing and storytelling aren't actually used to using as much data as we could for this type of thing. So we've used tools or like in the past. I mean, at many companies I don't want to like name drop anyone one specifically, but you know, I've used things like hootsuite or Sprout. They're agorapulse. There's tons of these tools. But now there's, you know, a wave of really more robust tools. I would say things like Oktopost, things like Dream Data, which I mentioned, things like Jasper AI.
35:39
Alina Dallal
Right.
35:39
Solveig Rundquist
You can connect Jasper AI with your Google Analytics, for instance, to see the effect that like AI content is having on certain metrics. Dream Data can do stuff like that. I mean to get like lead intent data, social Intent data from tools like Oktopost, I think really connecting that funnel would be really, really powerful. Is really, really powerful and not many people really do it. But I'm also a fan of making things as easy as possible. So preferred sources. My dream is to have like one or two platforms that connect with everything else and those are the sources. And any like content creator who may be, isn't a fan of spreadsheets can look in on their page and just see, oh, this is how this story is performing, this is how this blog post is performing, this is how this social media post is performing. And you can tailor your own metrics and then you can choose that, but to connect it back to the whole business funnel. So I don't know if that's helpful to you or not, but the answer is that it really depends on you and your company and like you know what categories and you think are important. But for sources, I'd say honestly the free versions of social media platforms or like the native versions of social media platforms like the analytics that LinkedIn or Instagram gives you just in its platform are not enough for the modern marketer, modern storyteller, so invest in something more.
37:04
Alina Dallal
That's a really good answer. And I think you touched on a bit about the buyer funnel and, and Social 110 data, which I think also when you're analyzing these posts and what do. Well, looking to See who. It's not just how many people reacting, not how many people are following you, but who are the people that are behind that interaction. And that engagement with your, with your content can help you understand their journey through the funnel as well, for sure. Which is the thing that you mentioned. So I just wanted to highlight it. I'm wrap up with this one last question I want to ask you to everybody that's with us right now listening, what is the. If they've maybe, let's say done data driven marketing in the past, they don't feel like they're getting it quite right or they're looking to enter that world. What is the one actionable tip that you advise them to start with?
37:50
Solveig Rundquist
Oh, that's a great question. I have to think, because I want to give a good answer. To be honest, I would say look around you and start realizing how common it is. Because I think, you know, there are, there are of course trends in marketing and things we talk about. And storytelling is like a hyped word right now. It has been for a couple of years. And now of course, like data, we're all becoming data obsessed as well. And so then you're like, well, how do I do data storytelling? Where do I start? But it's already everywhere. And so just having this awareness and starting to start to actively look for it will show you how easy it can be. So I mentioned, for instance, like the Taylor Swift's impact on the economy. Like that's a data story right there. Or of course a really obvious famous example is like the Spotify wrapped campaign every year. It's an excellent example of B2B SaaS data storytelling. It leverages user data to create personalized summaries of what they do also, like year over year. And there's also the relatability aspect, right? Both surprise and relatability. This year they're like, oh, you really match with users in this little village in Italy. It was for me. Or things like this. Like Google's COVID 19 mobility reports. Like during the pandemic, you know, Google released these monthly reports which gathered anonymized data to show how responses to the pandemic affected visiting trends. So places like parks, shops, workplaces, residential areas. Hans Rosling, you know, I'm in Sweden, so Hans Rosling, if you guys don't know him, he unfortunately passed away a few years ago. But amazing data scientist and public speaker, speaker, physician, who became famous for his ability actually to bring like statistical data to life with really, really captivating presentations. And he's written a book. He's also, he's a great storyteller. So I guess my point is like there are innumerable examples. So this isn't something new. The fact that we're all like storytelling data, data storytelling. Maybe the words we're using to describe it are new, but it as a trend is not new. And so if you know you want to start in it, then really just start everywhere you look looking for examples of it and it will get easier to do yourself as well.
40:04
Alina Dallal
Yeah, I think that's great advice. And I think as we're saying it is all around us, we might just not realize it until we're actively looking for it. And using source of inspiration is a really good place to start as well. I think that's a really great answer. So with that I want to say thank you so, so, so much, Sylvie, for joining me. It's been amazing. Listen to everything you have to say. What you've said is so insightful and it's been so helpful. From everyone that's joined us, our LinkedIn's are up here. If you'd like to connect with us on LinkedIn and continue the conversation. Any Q and A questions that we didn't get to, we'll respond to you via email. So thank you again everybody for joining us and thank you Solva, so much for sharing our expertise with us.
40:44
Solveig Rundquist
Thank you for having me and thanks everyone for joining.
