0:05
Jennifer Gutman
Hi, everyone. I'm Jen and I'm the director of social strategy here at Oktopost. And I am pumped to welcome you to the world premiere. Okay. Of our newest webinar series, Radically Transparent, where we will be bringing you a mixture of marketing and sales experts from around the globe to speak about some of our most interesting topics, challenges, debates, and mysteries in the modern marketing world. Today, we're going to focus on finding the suspects of who's killing our pipeline. And I want to kick off with some introductions, run through the suspects, reveal the pipeline murder, and of course, rethink some of the things that we do. But before we begin, I want to go ahead and just remind everybody that you're all on mute. So if you have any questions throughout the webinar, feel free to drop them in the Q and A box and we'll certainly get to them at the end of the webinar. And yes, as I mentioned before, this webinar is being recorded. And yes, everybody will absolutely get a copy sent directly to their inbox in the coming days. And if you like to join the conversation on social at any time, please feel free to use the hashtag radicallytransparent. And last but not least, As I know, 2020 and most of 2021 has been filled with zoom calls, and believe you me, zoom fatigue is real, we're gonna spice things up with a little bit corny but awesome game. So whenever you see the Oktopost mascot, which is this little guy right here, pop up on the screen, you can go ahead, make a tally on a piece of paper, make a mental note in your head. And at the end of the webinar, I'm just gonna go ahead and ask how many little octies you've counted and you can send through how many you've seen through the chat. And winners will be rewarded with a little octi of their own so sent to them to their snail mails. So with that, let's go ahead. He'll do a little spin there. Let's go ahead and do some introductions. As I shared, I'm Jen Gutman, based out of the Tel Aviv Headquarters Oktopost office, and I head up our social strategy. I've been with Oktopost for six years and counting, and those who know me know that I love a good fun fact. So here's mine. I hold an MA in counterterrorism with me today. If you want to give a little wave when I announce your name is Kenda McDonald, founder and CEO of Automation Ninjas, and we'll get to know her throughout the presentation. And Sean Ma, Global director of Strategic Services at Market One International. And of course, last but not least, we have little Octi the Oktopost mascot and an expert in all things Oktopost. So without further ado, Sean Kenda, are you ready to reveal with me the killer of all pipelines?
2:44
Shaun Ma
Let's have this talk.
2:46
Jennifer Gutman
All right, let's do it. When we were thinking about this webinar, a lot of suspects came to mind. Could it be sales, marketing support, customer success, leadership, technology? Something we're not thinking about. Kenda, Sean, I'd like you to kick us off. Who is the pipeline killer?
3:06
Kenda Macdonald
Please go on, Sean.
3:09
Shaun Ma
Okay. Okay, so this will be an interesting dialogue, right? So if there's, there's questions or whatnot comments, let's, let's go forward with that. But at the end of the day, you can go in a multitude of directions for pipeline optimization. And there are some things today that let's call it like current state convention that can be rethought worth rethinking.
3:31
Kenda Macdonald
Right?
3:31
Shaun Ma
And so one of them is consider lead scoring. And when I say that I mean not do it. I mean consider the current practice of lead scoring and what is it actually doing to pipeline, right? At the end of the day, it's producing a bunch of cold leads for sales to call. And if an organization is structured to handle that, great. But what's guaranteeing quality? And is there, I guess a more rigorous way to determine actual buying signals before it's passed over? Right, because a common practice is like more leads equals more MQLs, right? So it's a numbers game. And so there's this like fear of missing out situation going on, but that's simply bad business. And especially with the complications of marketing and sales not always being aligned on these initiatives, on what is actually a meaningful record to spend time on. And of course with marketing constantly trying to prove itself out, it also needs to be considered of what are the activities that's doing it favors versus what is not. So that's one side of it. The other side of it is of course there's heavy focus on outbound and I imagine there's going to continue to be heavy focus on outbound, especially with the advent of our very close future cookie less world. How do you continue to orchestrate customer experience in that environment and continue to drive eyeballs and manage them appropriately. The problem too though is how do you move away from an over utilization of emails from a demand gen perspective? I know that that's a very basic thing. To say, but we see this in various organizations where if you look at any one record in a global organization, we have seen legitimately a single record receiving more than 40 emails from that same organization in a week. And it's because there's a lack of, commonly there's a lack of intelligence around frequency of outbound comms. And what is the most appropriate thing to do if there's a bunch of things that are scheduled to go up.
5:34
Jennifer Gutman
Right.
5:34
Shaun Ma
And so basically, how do you break out of this tunnel vision of constant outbound comms and actually drive meaningful results that are positive business yields? And the last thing is ultimately we can go into the world of marketing attribution and prove out, look, this is fundamentally what works for the business. Yes, but there's also a tunnel vision limitation there where if the business is only laser focused on roi, then marketing is losing sight of actually what marketing should also be responsible for driving awareness, driving advocacy, all these other things that are, let's call it a cost doing business that's more difficult to measure. But there are tangible yields from it. The matter is how do you make those connections? Right. So it's rethinking KPIs and planning initiatives around how do you go to market with that kind of thought process?
6:27
Jennifer Gutman
It sounds to me, just to chime in there, Sean, that you're leaning that the suspect may be marketing.
6:34
Shaun Ma
There are some marketing activities. Yes, that. That can be rethought. Yes, for sure.
6:40
Kenda Macdonald
Yeah.
6:41
Kenda Macdonald
So I guess my suspect is directly leading into that and I think mine's a combination of marketing and prospects. So I feel like marketing is undermining the pipeline completely with its lack of. And this pulls into your lead scoring with its lack of understanding how the brain actually works when it's making a purchase decision. And I think that this undermines the pipeline for sales as well. So when the brain is deciding how to buy or whether to buy a product or service from a company, and the question I always get asked, so I'm going to preempt it, is does this work for B2B and B2C? Yes, because hopefully your B2B sort of guys have got brains. So you know, anyone who's making a purchase decision this will work for because of the fact that our brains can only understand making a purchase in this one way and there is no other way. So there was a great experiment done by Professor Brian Knutson at Stanford University and he put people in an FMRI scanner and he gave them a purchase process to go through an arbitrary amount of money. They were shown a product, they were shown a price, and then they watched the outcome, whether or not they would purchase something. And so people were going through the process of purchasing a product or a service, they showed them tons of different products. And what they were seeing was when people saw the products, the reward centers of the brain lit up like a Christmas tree. And this kind of makes sense because when you see a product or service that you want, you're your brain. In order to understand how that would apply, buying, it has to emulate actually having the product or service. Right. That's how we understand how to have something. Our mirror neurons do that for us. So we saw a lot of reward activation, especially with the higher end products, luxury products. A lot of dopamine production happens at the point of seeing a product that you want, that was kind of expected. But it was the like when people saw the price, that the whole kind of neuroscience and biopsychology and behavioral psychology world kind of went a little bit nuts. Because we all expected that when you make a decision, the emotional centers of your brain fire and some of the logic centers of the brain fire. So a lot of prefrontal cortex activation happens. But when we make a purchase decision, a price based decision, the brain understands price through the pain centers of the brain. So this is literally the part of the brain that deals with physical and emotional trauma. So from falling off your bike to all the way through to losing a loved one or something a little bit more severe than that. So that's how the brain understands price. And we have to remember that the brain didn't evolve to buy stuff. We're using parts of our brain for things it was never intended to be used for. Modern life forces the brain to hack itself. And so that gave us some really interesting insights, because what they could see is as people were going through that process of purchasing, that it was the reward activation versus the amount of pain center activation that meant whether or not someone was going to buy. And when we as salespeople and when we as marketers focus on marketing a product, we focus on minimizing the amount of price. Objection.
9:47
Jennifer Gutman
Right.
9:47
Kenda Macdonald
That's a big focus for a lot of companies is to get people so excited about a product that they don't care about the price. The price is something that we can't really control because that's just how the brain understands. It's just how the brain understands price. We can't control the amount of pain activation. What we can control is the amount of reward activation in relation to your brand. And Your product and your service. And that is marketing's job. It is to make sure that it has a significantly. The brain has a significantly high enough reward activation to outweigh the pain activation that it receives. So when we come to understanding that purchase process and when we come to sales and marketing activities, we try and get the lead through, and then we try and rush them through to the sales process. And that means we do two bad things. We provide sales with leads that are really only marketing qualified, but we also don't allow the brain enough time to create a reward like a proper reward activation. So there are lots of things that we can do. That's a fundamental problem. But we need to structure our sales processes and our marketing processes to understand how to increase that reward activation. So we have to add value. So we've got. We've got a lot that we have to do. So that's the two points there. What we can do is if we understand what is rewarding to our consumers, we can provide that through content. So I love the idea of focusing on inbound and focusing on clicks and focusing on progressive profiling. So understanding what your audience is consuming helps you understand what stage of the purchase process they're at, which means you can provide the appropriate information. And as you learn more about your consumer based on their behavior that they are displaying you, you can provide relevant information. And that's called progressive profiling. So you're progressively profiling your audience. And lead scoring needs to become more behavioral to follow behavior and understand what types of content people are consuming, not just that they're consuming content. It needs to be very specific to where they are in that journey so you can increase reward activation. So I think marketing kills the pipeline in two ways. Not understanding how. How to provide the right information relevant to where the consumer is at that point in time. But also fundamentally, the tools that we use are undermining the process because we end up passing leads through that even though they're engaging with lots of stuff and are therefore qualified, they're not qualified at all. They're not in the right place in the process. So sales has no hope because the brain isn't at the right place at the right time.
12:16
Jennifer Gutman
Interesting. So here we have two webinar guests, and it's a tie. I mean, it seems like marketers are indeed the suspects. And, you know, I want to call it out, right? We always want to be learning, we always want to be doing better and being better at our craft. So I want to rethink this with you guys, because you've been in the field for quite some time and you're quite experts in helping so many marketers and organizations get over this hump. What are some of the things or how can we change the things that we do as marketers to not destroy all of our hard work and collecting all this great data and the leads and everything that we're required to do as marketers, how can we rethink that approach?
13:05
Shaun Ma
You made some interesting statements. I agree with all of your statements. But I want to clarify one thing. I, I am not saying, and I think we're all not necessarily saying this, that marketing is a soul killer pipeline. I know we get that, right? Everybody is complicit in this, but we are all marketers and we're here to talk about how do you elevate the situation and enable marketing to have a bulletproof business case so that like, change management can start on the sales side to like, start to influence and do more beneficial activities? Right. So one of it is like thinking about convention. That's what I was talking about before. Look, we're in a world now where data is collected everywhere, right? And so the depth that one can go to understand what the business is doing, but also understand what the audience is doing and then activate based on that is crazy now, okay? And so we can go that deep. Why are we stuck where it's commonplace? And I'm going to go back to the scoring idea where we have this Cody dynamic scoring situation where you're like scoring Bant, you're scoring behavior, which is fine, but number one, is actually data informing it, right? And number two, even if data is, how do you ensure that that model is continually relevant? Because the data that informs it is different based on the scenario that it applies to. Meaning, size and shape of account. That's mine. Size and shape of a product that's purchased. Or as you go into the world of customer lifetime value, what a customer buys after the initial purchase will vary. Right? And so therefore how do you figure out what are the signals from the noise to point out, hey, this is an account that's worth talking to. We're seeing a surge of behavior, Right? And so the point of the conversation I want to have is if we're going to rethink the activity of like gating records to sales, it should be less of a conversation about how do we score records and more of a conversation about how do you actually model. How do you determine what is the propensity for a record or account to convert based on this product or service line because every organization sells many, right? So which buyer group do you interface with? And within that group, where are they in the journey? And like this is probably what they're interested in. It's one thing to identify that and I will call out as complex as it sounds, it's, it's actually not crazy to identify those factors. Okay, the next bit though is can you share the relevant metadata? Like almost think of like a sales cockpit. Hey Sales, we're flagging these records for you. This is a rich segment of people worth talking to. But here's some intelligence behind it to inform your next best action of this is the kind of conversation you need to have. Like this is what we're seeing. They're surging in this area. Like do this. So that's, that's where you go into more of a world of now it's a partnership between marketing sales, but it has to start somewhere and it has to start with marketing does in fact have the data. Right. So what does the means to serve that up to start that kind of collaborative interaction so that when we are thinking about hey, we're going to do like full on true ABM plays between sales and marketing. This is a very good starting point and that propensity modeling also will determine and help marketing pick out. How do you tear out your accounts as you do ABM so that you can start to chase after the ones that are going to be bring the greatest influence to the business?
16:28
Kenda Macdonald
Yes, this is exactly what I'm talking about when I'm saying progressive profiling, lead scoring has to go beyond just somebody's clicking on a lot of stuff and it has to go into this person is displaying sales behavior. This person is displaying what we would say qualifies them as a good lead, this person. And that means going down to the level of detail of this person is consuming the type of content that would make them a good quality client. So this person is consuming the right kinds of content as well as sales related content. So you can, you can go ham with it. But what I'm, what I'm trying to get more businesses doing and what works extremely successfully is when you understand the various different awareness stages. And when I'm saying awareness, I don't mean like awareness, consideration, decision. I mean the awareness stages originally created by Eugene Schwartz for advertising purposes, they map really nicely to the actual general buying process that the brain goes through. Just as it's making decisions prior to purchase. So it starts off with unaware, then it goes problem aware, then solution aware, then product aware. Then most aware. And at each of those individual stages, people consume different types of content. So our consumption behavior changes and the types of content that we should be providing people with to make them a better qualified lead should be relative to what they are consuming. So if you understand those individual stages, you can educate them in order to get them to the right point. And then I really think we need to double down on what the difference is between marketing qualified and sales qualified because I think those definitions are really poor in most businesses. And for the most part it is a case of their sales qualified if they're really highly engaged. What does that mean? What does highly engaged mean? You know, it's not about how many clicks, it's about the types of content, the types of behavior that people are displaying. When you understand the awareness journey, you can understand the types of behavior. But also I'm a massive advocate for removing the silos between marketing and sales because I feel like the two need to work really well together. Sales has so much intelligence around the types of questions that people ask in the sales process. Marketing has the capability to take those questions and create fantastic content that creates a better qualified lead and, and creates sort of higher purchases. Right. So if we can bring those two together, use the intelligence from sales and the skills from marketing, we can create a far superior pipeline to most things that most businesses haven't faced right now.
19:04
Jennifer Gutman
Anything to add there, Sean?
19:09
Shaun Ma
Yeah, actually. So Kenda's point about the awareness stages, it's very relevant, right? Whether you, it doesn't really matter how you slice up the customer journey that's unique to your business. You're going to have a way to measure that, right? And I guess common place is like how do you actually measure it?
19:25
Jennifer Gutman
Right.
19:26
Shaun Ma
How do you, how do you determine whether or not someone consume content? X or Y or Z, whatever. And like how does it actually like arithmetically. Arithmetically calculates you. They're in this stage, right?
19:40
Kenda Macdonald
Yeah.
19:40
Shaun Ma
And so the point I want to make there is it's actually not that complicated. You can either use a tagging system to tag your pages or very likely, and I think this is a common miss, especially people who are deep into the demand gen space is collaborate with the web team, the media buying team, because these guys are using utms to tag content. And if that can inform what happens mid funnel and bottom funnel, then you have the same level of intelligence and you can see how people transition from when they first become like aware of the brand and start interacting with the content through to what's happening with sales and that's a bunch of data that you can action on.
20:18
Kenda Macdonald
Yeah. It's also when you start to do that, you start to break down those silos. Right. And you start to sort of pivot everybody in the same direction. Which means that I feel like marketing is getting a bit of a. We are definitely dunking marketing at the moment. But the point is not that marketing is necessarily completely killing the process. The point is that marketing has got so much to do. Like, we've got so many things to do, and we're told that there's this new thing here and this new thing here and this new thing here, and we've got to take on this tactic and this thing, and we don't focus on the strategy behind things. And if marketing can get this piece right, it forces everybody else to do the. To do the right thing. Right. Because marketing is then providing a really good quality lead and is providing all the right kinds of information. So I feel like marketing is a large part of the problem, but also has a lot of power in fixing this pretty much completely. And then we can start bringing sales in and we can start bringing sort of demand gen into the process as well. But I love the idea of the way that we like to approach it is 100% UTM tracking all the way through. Also being just really clear that when people are coming in from certain search terms and you're driving search certain keywords and certain ads to make sure that you're sending them to landing pages that have appropriate content and appropriate signups relative to the search intent that has been displayed to get them there. So just being really clear that if someone's coming in for that they want this kind of information and they should go here in the process and not just giving people a generic thing, they're displaying good types of behavior. Track that behavior the whole way through and use that to inform where they go next. So make sure that the next part in the journey is really nicely laid out. So UTMS is such a good chat, Sean. Such a good chat.
22:03
Jennifer Gutman
I would agree. And you know, I think we're entering, I mean, we've been here for a while, the age of the customer experience and the customer journey. And it is so absolutely important. And I'd like to open up now for questions and answers to Kenda, to Sean, and really use this as a bouncing point to continue the conversation, whether we continue to it on social, if you want to reach out individually. But it's an interesting topic. And I think as we marketers build that community and stick Together and help each other out and really come together to explore these topics. We can all be better marketers and stop destroying our pipeline. So I'll open up now if anybody has any questions.
22:50
Kenda Macdonald
Natalie reckons the killer is sales. Does that mean you're in marketing, Natalie, are we all in marketing? It's not nice when we're calling ourselves out, is it? Yeah, I mean, I, Natalie says no comment.
23:09
Kenda Macdonald
There we go.
23:10
Kenda Macdonald
I mean, I agree to a certain extent. I definitely don't think sales helps the process. I just think that marketing, there's a lot that's expected of marketing. And we kind of like. Sean, you highlighted this already, right? We, we tell marketing that they have certain KPIs and we make that such a big main focus of everything that marketing has to do, like focusing on these KPIs that don't really have any meaning behind them. And that means that we lose the rest of the pipeline because we're focusing on the wrong things. We're focusing on click through rates when we should be focusing on whatever the case is for your specific business. But I think we just focus on a lot of wrong, wrong metrics is what. Is what I would say. I'm sure you can put that more, more better, Sean. So you can put that better.
24:00
Jennifer Gutman
So we also have a panelist asking any advice on how to go about creating an efficient profiling mechanism, whether it's progressive profiling, specifically a progressive profiling mechanism.
24:19
Kenda Macdonald
So you got to start and understand what your levels are first. So get to the, get to the place where you're really clear that this is where people are when they're at this stage and at this stage and at this stage. And these are the types of content that they might consume or the types of behaviors that they might display. So once you've got your foundations of. I actually know what I'm looking for, the easiest way to do that is you can get more complex than this. But if you're just starting out, you can track link clicks. Link clicks are a really easy thing to track from any kind of email marketing system that you might be utilizing to send out automated communications. If you're providing content, that's a really easy place to start tracking things from, tracking what people are clicking on a step up from there. Oh, and of course, right in the beginning, track what they're signing up for, because what they're signing up for will tell you, tell you the starting point and then track the link clicks from there. And from there on you can go one step higher. And I would Start tracking web activity. So once people have clicked through from something, what are they then consuming on the site and using that to feed back into your automation system. And I like to. This is getting another level deeper but I like to adapt the type of content that is being sent to people based on the behavior they've displayed. And I will also flag up to sales, this person is now just purely consuming pricing content. Now's your time to reach out that kind of stuff. So but you need to understand your levels first. Start with where have they come from and what they're consuming, what they're clicking on. And then you can go through and track things on websites and get a
25:51
Kenda Macdonald
little bit more fancy with that.
25:52
Kenda Macdonald
Don't know.
25:53
Kenda Macdonald
What do you reckon, Sean?
25:55
Shaun Ma
Yeah, I'll jump in real quickly there. There's two foundations that are core, right. One is what is the end point of profile that you need to collect? Like what is the full list of fields obviously.
26:06
Kenda Macdonald
Right.
26:06
Shaun Ma
But like that's boiling the ocean. So specifically for marketing use case, what is the bare amount of core information marking needs to successfully segment to target records?
26:18
Kenda Macdonald
Right.
26:18
Shaun Ma
That should be your defining point of how you figure out what you ultimately need to collect at the end of the day. Now a limiting factor to some orgs with regards to progressive profiling on the collection of data is the opportunities to gate. Either there's not enough opportunities to gate or there is not always that value exchange that's always present so that people may not progressively continue to go through gates. And therefore your progressive profiling initiative may not take you as far as you'd like it to. Because there's a UX piece, right. And so the other thing that can be considered to augment it is data append, right. If you can collect data information from the initial form submit that's appended, then you're good and there's a lot of killer services out there that will get you that account level data that you can start to profile.
27:10
Kenda Macdonald
Yeah, for sure that initial opt in information is total gold dust because people tell you what they're interested in by what they're opting in for. One of the other things we like to do if you're just trying to. Because once you get to this point, you look at all your content and especially if you've got a really good quality blog and you probably have hundreds of pieces of content and it can be totally overwhelming going through that process. So what we like to do is we like to take core products and core services and then we like to like sort of I can't think of the word, but segment all of the content related to those core products and services and go, okay, if people are consuming this type of content, then they'd probably be interested in this product or service. And if people are consuming this type, they're probably interested in this and so on. And then you can segment down by behavior. So just to stop you from getting overwhelmed when you get to the segmentation of your content, because you then have to tag everything, right? So that can be a little bit easier.
28:04
Jennifer Gutman
Yeah, sorry. But before you enter in, John, I just want to put a nerve to rest. We have some comments coming in that people are having a few nightmares just thinking how daunting a document like this would be and what it would look like. So I just want to reassure you guys that are, you know, tuning in. We have experts here today and you can reach out to them anytime, and they would be happy to help in any way possible. So, Sean, I just wanted to. I saw that come through.
28:30
Shaun Ma
Thank you. I just wanted to just. Jamie's question regarding how do you. How do you elevate this scoring situation that's like move away from demographics and just points activity? The easiest way is actually to start on the sales side, right? Hear me out, hear me out. Like, if you're, if it's a modeling discussion, it is understanding what are the trends and makeups of records that ultimately lead to purchases, right? And so in your CRM, you're going to have opportunities and. And if sales is doing it right, and those opportunities are linked to contacts and accounts, then you can start to model and figure out, hey, based on product A, B or C, this is the size and shape of records and what they look like, right? That. That will produce kind of like a baseline, let's call it matrix, to monitor records to see how they line up. But then the modeling side is there's a lot of free machine, like everything. This is what everybody needs to know. Everything that has to do with machine learning is free. Okay? They're available on GitHub. You download the package and you can run it on a data set. It's that easy. Okay? So you can actually pick a model of your choice, apply it on this data set that you have this opportunity data, and it can calculate for you based on your entire data set of all the accounts, what are the attributes that make up what would be someone that's likely to buy? And not only that, you can run it based on historic data and compare it and you can see the percentage accuracy. And usually a Good model is going to be more than 70% accurate with propensity modeling. And those are the records that you can begin to flag. But it's not just a matter of flagging records. It's then how do you figure out what kind of information do you add to that to package to the sales team who traditionally. Let's talk about this very briefly. Sales is dysfunctional, right? If a sales team is actually well built, they are dysfunctional by design because you hired these guys who are after the hunt. If they smell blood, they're going to go for it. But they're always after the lowest hanging fruit. They're relationship people. Right. And so they're always going to be rogue and they're going to operate in their own method. And so yes, there is a large culture shift that needs to happen that goes alongside this that we're not really spending time talking about. But at the end of the day, if that culture shift can be proven like, hey Mr. Salesperson, I was able to help you get sales sooner. You had to work like not as hard. That's it, right?
30:57
Kenda Macdonald
It's how do you establish how we get buy in? That is how we get buy in every time.
31:01
Kenda Macdonald
Because every time we put like progressive
31:04
Kenda Macdonald
profiling in place for a company, the sales team always gives us flack in the beginning. But we'll always go in and we
31:10
Kenda Macdonald
do, we do a couple of things.
31:11
Kenda Macdonald
If anyone in marketing, I'm really sorry for the guys in sales, I'm going to be rude now, but we always go in and we stroke sales ego like big time because that's the way to get in with sales.
31:20
Kenda Macdonald
And we always sit down with sales
31:21
Kenda Macdonald
and we are mining them for data, but we sit down with sales. And if you want to get. I love your point of getting started with sales.
31:26
Kenda Macdonald
You ask them what are the kinds
31:28
Kenda Macdonald
of questions that people are asking right before they buy. Right. And when they give you that list of questions, they are giving you the telltale indicators that somebody is ready to purchase. You can then create content for that and then watch how those interactions happen with those pieces of content and then flag it up to sales, you are effectively making it much easier for sales to convert. The other thing is when you start doing that and sales start seeing these super qualified leads coming through and they're really easy to convert. They're going to want to get on that bandwagon big time because that's what they want. They want really easy, low hanging fruit to convert all the time. They don't want to work on the Long term stuff, because that's not what they're built for and it's not what they're good at. That's what we're good at as marketers, right, Is sending that content over longer periods of time. So if you can sit down with sales and ask them what are the questions that you get asked all the time, they'll be cagey in the beginning, but as they start to see the results coming from it, they'll want you to start creating content. And that's always my favorite part, is when sales starts coming forward and goes, this is a question I get asked a lot. Can you do a blog for me like you did for. For that over there? I'm like, yes, I can. I can certainly do that. So you'll get sales in on the process by doing that. But I always start like, speak to sales, get the triggers from them that like, these are really good indicators of sales behavior. Pick those up and start tracking that behavior first. And you can do it really simply just by tracking what content people are consuming. And I think I've given you, Jen, the document. If anyone wants an awareness document to build to break down those awareness stages, that just walks you through the process. Just from a, from a. It's not from a data standpoint, more from a. Like breaking out. These are the types of behaviors we're looking for. Just, just hit Jenna or hit me up and I'll pop over. It's a PDF workbook from a webinar that I ran on how to do the process. So you guys are welcome to have that as well.
33:18
Jennifer Gutman
And I have to say, earlier today I was reading through it, I was doing some of the workbook. It's really easy to understand, to go through, and it's actually fun. I really enjoyed the exercise. So it's a great workbook. With that said, I want to wrap up and keep true to time. And as I promised, if you wanted to go, let me go ahead and wanted to talk a little bit about the Octi winner. So with that said, if you counted up all of the little octies that are appearing on the screen, if you want to go ahead and chat those numbers to me now, that would be fantastic. I'll give you a moment to do so.
33:57
Kenda Macdonald
Oh, it's a pleasure, Jamie.
34:03
Jennifer Gutman
And as the numbers are coming in, oh, I get to see everyone.
34:09
Kenda Macdonald
I love how everyone's got different numbers. This is my favorite. This thing is. This is a cognitive bias of change blindness.
34:16
Kenda Macdonald
Right.
34:18
Kenda Macdonald
Literally what it is as well. If anyone wants to learn anything about change blindness, search for the video of the guy in a gorilla suit playing basketball.
34:28
Kenda Macdonald
It's very similar.
34:29
Jennifer Gutman
So there's a bunch of really great answers. As Kenda said, they're all, they're all over the map. So I think what I'm going to do is I'm going to spice things up even more. And I want to make an announcement that thank you all so much for attending the webinar. What I'm actually going to do, since you all took the time to listen to us speak, find the suspect, the main suspect of marketing Killing Pipeline and how we can work to rethink our approaches, I'm going to go ahead and send everybody for participating today a little Octi. When you receive the follow up email, which will have the recording inside of it, there will be a form. Please fill out your snail mail address. We're going to go old school and I'll be sure to send you one of the little Octi plushes. They'll be on their way to you. So with that said, thank you everyone for joining us. This is the first of many interesting discussions we'll be having and I'd like to make a note that you can actually catch Kenda and Sean on the radically transparent podcast presented by Oktopost. Wherever you catch your podcast, they have interesting episodes out. And now we will be sure to continue the conversation with radicallytransparent Kenda. Sean, thank you so much for joining us.
35:36
Kenda Macdonald
Thank you.
35:37
Shaun Ma
Thank you guys.
